Let's talk about "ZERO LOGS" VPN Provider please

I’ve been doing a lot of VPN provider research recently to come up with a reliable list. But at the moment I’m having trouble to recommend “no logging” provider and at the same time excluding providers who are transparent about logging. Why is that? I believe most providers used the recent TorrentFreak interview as promotion, and answered the first question not honest enough:

Do you keep ANY logs which would allow you to match an IP-address and a time stamp to a user of your service? If so, exactly what information do you hold and for how long?

The big question: Is it even possible to run a VPN service with no logs at all?

Related article: When my VPN Provider’s privacy policy says they “don’t log,” that means I am anonymous.

“VPN users should demand more transparency from their VPN providers.”

My main problem right now is how to decide which provider makes it to the list. The one that just say “we don’t log” and punish the ones who are completly honest and transparent about logging? What are your thoughts about this?

Yeah we feel we’re being punished for our honesty.

A certain VPN provider placed highly on this list ratted out one of their customers without even a court order yet they were placed higher on the TorrentFreak list while were pushed down to page 3… simply because if our “logging” policy. Meanwhile we were under pressure from UK and HK police to divulge information yet we held firm and let our lawyers resolve the issue quietly.

I’ll repeat what I said in another thread…

All that we “log” is the timestamp of connection and the shared IP address of our VPN server that was used at the time. That IP address will also be shared by multiple users at the same time since our Privacy VPNs only have one IP per server.
We thought this would be the best way to deter peadophiles and terrorists from abusing our service without needing to resort to monitoring our customers traffic in any way.
We do not keep activity or traffic logs and we never will

I can only see 2 of the comments here… I feel like I missed something.

What if your VPN logs your real IP address via their website or support systems? The police could come with a court order and say “we know this person with email [email protected] has an account with you. What is their real IP address?”

Amazing how many “no logs” VPNs are actually using Google Analytics on their website and sharing your IP and purchases with Google :stuck_out_tongue:

  • The idea that any vpn in any country other than the U.S is safer is very wrong, emotional and invalid since most vpns don’t own and run their own servers in that country. Most of them, rent servers from 3rd party companies that are compliant with rules in their own countries, and they don’t have physical 24/7 control over them.

VPN companies that don’t have physical control over their servers and who rent them from 3rd parties are saying they are not based in the U.S so they are safer. I think its ridiculous.

It is a marketing gimmick and I think its a travesty this is still peddled.

A vpn provider can say they are based in Malta or Hong Kong or anywhere, but if you look up, they don’t even have a physical presence there or even have servers there.

They may not even have the financial capabilities to defend you or lawyers.

I know of only a very few vpns that have said that they would rather shut down their service than give up their users. Most of them run vpn service strictly as a business, not because they care about you. They are sure to make up some weird reason after than give up their users. Maybe they have already thought about what ‘wise statement’ they will say when they are forced to give up their users.

NSA/CIA the U.S government have relations with many countries in the world, just because there are no rules in some countries, doesn’t mean, the vpn companies based there are any better.

Take thepiratebay as an example, they are moving from one country to another always.

Take, the earthvpn, supposedly no-log and based in Cyprus, their servers got raided.

Cyberghost moved from Germany to Romania, because I think their servers were compromised.

At least, in the U.S, you have laws, supreme court, good lawyers, organizations like EFF. In many other countries, I doubt, they have as good legal system as in the U.S. Once you are in jail, you may not see the daylight and it won’t even be reported in the news, I doubt. Even if you go to jail, there is always a possibility, one day, you can get out. In other countries, no one would even know you are in jail, possibly.

So this whole idea “We are not based in U.S so we are safe from NSA” is kinda wrong.

  • Is it possible to have a no-log vpn?

Read
https://www.cryptostorm.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6332

There are many methods to achieve a no-log vpn. VPN providers who say its not possible, maybe, say it because if they provide a no-log vpn, they would loose control and may have fear that their income will reduce.

  • How is it possible to torrent on U.S servers?

You can re-route torrent traffic.

So, you are safe, using a vpn with a large number of users, hence financial ability to defend you, a vpn that have said they would rather shut down their service than give up anyone of their users and a vpn that have revealed least the name of one guy who runs their service and is well-known person, not some hidden guy on reddit or on their chat help. You are basically sent to /null if you are using a vpn service and you don’t know where is their office or even know of a single guy who runs it. I think you should be spooked if you are running a vpn service and their owners are hidden…who is to say, they are not the CIA? The possibility is real.

Maybe some information is missing

Thanks for this list.

It’s possible. Inevitably a VPN knows everything it is capable of knowing. To be no log it must then disregard all information it inevitably knows and keep no record of it. This however requires trust in the VPN to do so. This is why if you want actual anonymity you utilize a system like TOR where you don’t need trust in the exit node to disregard who you are as it doesn’t know due to the utilization of multiple hops.

What I don’t like about the torrent freak article is when VPNs don’t go indepth and simply say “no logs”. What does that mean? There are several VPNs that claim traffic logs while keeping connection logs. I want to know how info is disregarded and what is kept.

Is it even possible to run one without logs? No because it’s always possible to log the data. You’d have to pass through another proxy before getting to them in order to make their details garbage. The trust is always pushed somewhere else down the line

I know that Hideninja VPN really keeps no logs. I’m a fan of this service ))) If you talk to Hideninja Customer Care they may ask for your Android ID to check if you connected to their servers - for trouble solving. That’s all.

Struggling to decide out of this list but maybe Mullvad?.

Can I recommend that you add a catagory on whether these vpn providers require a proper email address or accept throw aways for when registering with them? Plus whether they have have a numbered account name rather than email log in.

To me PIA still seems the best VPN other than the fact it’s US based.

You have to trust your VPN provider. If you can’t, then bury your PC in the forest and never use the internet again. You will never be safe.

Every VPN needs to keep track of the number of simultaneous connections per account, otherwise with an unlimited number of simultaneous connections the whole internet could all just share the one account.

So when you connect to your VPN that information goes into a central database. Is that a “log”?

Is that information really deleted when you log out? How do you know?

Get a VPS. Set up VPN yourself. Profit?

Who’s to say that a big VPN provider isn’t a CIA honeypot?

Why wouldn’t the CIA/NSA/GCHQ setup a honeypot VPN? If they did, what would their plan of action look like? Something like this?

  • Form a holding company in the US to hide the true ownership
  • Find a frontman to be the public face of the operation
  • Start with a big budget and advertise everywhere
  • Be one of the cheapest VPN providers to attract as many customers as possible.
  • Tell everyone you have “no logs” so they feel safe.
  • Log everyones real IP address and use secret monitoring tools.

Kind of like how the CIA started Facebook really. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGdWsxHJlM

I want to know how info is disregarded and what is kept.

Anyone making a list of “no logs” VPNs should also ask what information is collected and stored.

Specifically: “Do you any of your systems store the real IP address?”

May I quote /u/blackVPN from another thread, recently. He gave a couple of technical examples:

Maybe someone can explain how a VPN can offer dedicated IPs yet claim to have no way to trace a user based on an IP and timestamp?

For example (from the TF list):

Source

but the forest keeps logs.

so trust the VPNs that are honest :slight_smile:

how does one ip per server deter terrorists?

I doesn’t… but our policy of “logging” connection timestamps + their VPN IP and keeping that info for 7 days does.

great list! the issue of which VPN to trust is much more complicated than “no logs”