So, I’ve just come across a recent post on someone asking about the legitimate worthiness of a potential ESL opportunity’s salary versus workload prospect. Reading the comments, I’ve noticed how many foreigners coming to China as ESL professors hold overly high expectations for their salaries.
I find that anywhere between 15-20k after tax working 25-35 hours a week is pretty decent money even in a first-tier city. Sure, you may not be able to live like a king, but if you’re someone who cooks often at home and isn’t a spendthrift, I think that amount is definitely enough as a single person.
I’ve met many Chinese nationals who were in shock when they learned how much foreigners make only by teaching English, while also knowing that even Slavic people (no hate or xenophobia, but I’ve heard and witnessed this a lot) clearly no sufficient proficiency were getting twice as much as the Chinese, who work their asses out from 8AM to 7-8PM in much more time-consuming and task-demanding environments and jobs.
The privilege is even brazen, and I can’t wrap my head around the fact that, say, Anglophones expect to get the same amount of money as they do back home by having a more “regular job” while disregarding the different context and purchasing power they have in the country hosting them.
The reason the local salaries are low is because people are willing to accept it. If you quit your 5k job tomorrow citing salary issues, there would be 50 people lined up to take your place.
If ESL salaries were reduced to 5k, there would be an exodus of people from the country.
My wife’s friends are all working in foreign trade and earning more than even top foreign teachers. I think China is so big that it’s easy to fall for misconceptions.
Many Chinese earn really well, I mean, just look at all the European cars driving around.
Most foreign teachers don’t come for the experience, but they choose China because it pays more than Japan, Korea and so on…
There’s a difference between someone that studied English in a Chinese universities and someone who lives in an English speaking country. For a parent, the teacher that understands how the language is used commonly is far more valuable. Otherwise you might completely miss common expressions and sayings that aren’t “textbook” materials but still very useful.
Oh fuck you’re gonna make me defend the free market: there’s no such thing as “overly high salary expectations” if they are in line with reality, and I haven’t met a foreign teacher of any kind making less than 17k/month in China since about 2019.
This is more about international k-12 teachers than ESL, but it’s true for some in ESL as well: especially post-Covid, China is very few people’s top choice. Check past posts in r/Internationalteachers, and you’ll find a lot of comments like “On the one hand it’s a great salary, but on the other hand you have to live in China.” Not “you get to,” but “you have to.” All of China, even Tier 1 cities, is considered a “hardship location” by many international teachers, and there is even a faction that won’t consider teaching in China under any circumstances, regardless of how much they could be paid. These aren’t necessarily my opinions - I’m here in r/chinalife, not over there in r/china - but it’s a significant factor for foreign workers in general. They’re getting paid extra to live somewhere they don’t really want to live (yes, their reasons for not wanting to live in China might be based on incorrect info, irrational prejudice, and/or propaganda and scaremongering, but they’re never going to find out what living here is actually like if they refuse to come here). A recurring theme with foreigners working in China is saving enough money and gaining enough experience (since many here are early in their careers), to move on to a country they actually want to live in.
It’s a market like any other, Chinese schools want foreigners to teach English - preferably of the “correct” type - so they need to pay a wage high enough to attract them.
Seriously if they would offer local wages no one would come.
I think for a lot of people it comes down to the ability to save not only for life, but for retirement. If I work in China for 10 years and save 10,000 per month I’ve got a good savings nest egg. But that amount is still very short of that which I should have in my retirement fund. So the contributions my much higher salary would be made during those ten years, are either not made, or they are made with my savings and then I’m back to square 1 again.
The salary I can earn here is around 20-30k a month in China is less than that which a supermarket worker or full time McDonald’s employee will earn?
I also look at my education and the money I have to pay for that - my degree cost more than 300,000 rmb. I’m still paying that back.
Also if I want to go home, I can’t get a high speed train at spring festival, it’s a 24 hour + trip one way at a cost no less than 10,000 rmb. So whilst locals might be in shock, they need to consider the whole picture. Not just one component.
Yes, people shouldn’t be complacent/ungrateful or ignorant about the situations of others BUT they should also be very aware of the going rates, their qualifications etc and not just be grateful for 15-20k when places pay more. Many people are paying enormously high student loans and other expenses that dwarf Chinese equivalents. It’s tricky and nuanced but no company pays people more than they need to.
Mate, it’s called supply and demand. If a person can negotiate high salaries then there’s clearly a demand. This post is ridiculous and I’m not even a teacher.
China is considered a hardship location, end of story. Personally I would not dream of coming to China and dealing with having to live here for anything less than twice the salary in my home country.
20 years ago you could make very good money in South Korea until the country developed and became a desirable place to live for foreigners. Maybe in 20 years China will be the same.
It’s a thing called self hating rather than simply white worshipping, besides all the supply and demand talks you see here.
China has a knack of squeezing its own people and ingratiating outsiders (not only foreigners or only white), you’ll get to know that better if you stay long enough in China.
Also about the supply and demand explanations, it’s really not that simple. Many countries need ESL teachers but don’t like to pay as much, including richer countries.
My only opinion on this is “you do you.” And go out accept that 15k job in Beijing. Cook at home and be a spend thrift and stay single if you have too. Take an attitude of Just don’t think about it. I’m not doing any of this so…
“Reading the comments”… see, there’s the problem. What you actually learn from reading the comments on reddit is that there are always a few trolls about who get a kick out of talking shit, because they think it will make somebody feel bad. One way to gauge the actual salary expectations of actual English teachers may be to, I dunno, get out and ask some? May involve getting out more, granted…